http://en.dark-omen.org/texts/quotes/index.html
Fantastic game, very over the top and challenging.
Monday, October 19, 2009
What the future will bring to Warhammer Old School:
Memoires of Count Sebastian Adolphus of Wissenland, The unvictorious Gouvernor of New Altdorf, New Reikland and Phoenix Island
This was the fellow that led the majority of my defeats. He tried to colonize about 3 islands in multi-player campaigns and barely got a foot-hold in any of them. I actually kept a written record of his exploits, so these I will share with you.
The origin of unvictoriousness
This one will be a short one, it's very simple
The Fixes and Foibles of 6th Edition
Oh yes, I loved 6th, but it was too late.
What you should do when you loose at Warhammer Fantasy... A lot
Option one is simple, stop playing for a while and get internet! That's how... and find the right sites, Portent never taught me anything!
Why you can't rely on War Machines and Flagellants to win you battle, the last thing Count Sebastian the Unvictorious of Wissenland ever told his lieutenants after Shadows of Darkness.
And much, much more I hope.
This was the fellow that led the majority of my defeats. He tried to colonize about 3 islands in multi-player campaigns and barely got a foot-hold in any of them. I actually kept a written record of his exploits, so these I will share with you.
The origin of unvictoriousness
This one will be a short one, it's very simple
The Fixes and Foibles of 6th Edition
Oh yes, I loved 6th, but it was too late.
What you should do when you loose at Warhammer Fantasy... A lot
Option one is simple, stop playing for a while and get internet! That's how... and find the right sites, Portent never taught me anything!
Why you can't rely on War Machines and Flagellants to win you battle, the last thing Count Sebastian the Unvictorious of Wissenland ever told his lieutenants after Shadows of Darkness.
And much, much more I hope.
Saturday, October 17, 2009
Hero Hammer was an economic solution part II
ECONOMIC CONSIDERATIONS TURNED WARHAMMER IN TO HERO HAMMER II
I said previously that Hero Hammer Hosts were created out of economic considerations. I will elaborate on this statement further.
For the greater part of 5th edition’s life span, the cost of miniatures was comparable with the current pricing, mighty expensive! There were 3 variants of packaging for miniatures, the Plastic box-set, the Metal box-set and the blister-pack.
The Plastic Box-set was most cost effective, you either got a unit of 6-10 uniform close combat troops (or wood elf archers) or 4-5 archers and 4-5 spearmen/swordsmen for +/- 8 euro’s (and the first 6 years I played we still payed Guidlers, so that’s the prices x2) without command figures. There was also a box-set containing 2 plastic Bretonnian Knights, a boxed Skeleton Chariot and a set of 3 skeleton horsemen. This made the Undead quite a cost-efficient army in 4th edition and the greater part of the 5th (plastic infantry, plastic cavalry, plastic chariots, the core of any undead army came cheap). Chaos, with plastic Warriors and Plastic Beastmen came second, but all their exotic units were expensive metal. Greenskins also featured a great range of cheap plastics, with Goblins (spears and archers, and there was a special pack with a free fanatic included!), Boyz (warriors and archers) and Black Orcs. Most Bretonnian armies could be built exclusively from the archer and Knights of The Realm Boxed sets and as they featured in the starter set, swapping the lizardmen for more Bretonnians from a friend’s starter set gave you an instant 1000-1500 point’s army for 50 bucks! Yes, that was a force of 24 knights and some 48 archers, but Bretonnians were a rather efficient force, even with just these 2 troop types and a few characters (cost effective money and points wise). An army of triangles! And that’s one of the more solid geometric shapes ;)
Metal Box-sets contained 3-4 heavy cavalry, a character mounted on a big beast or a large war machine/chariot. The prices for these were about 20-50 euro’s depending on the contents. Later some regiments of renown were added to the range of metal box-sets supplying a squad of 6-12 infantry or 5 cavalry.
The blister-packs were about 5 euro’s for a cavalryman or character and 8-10 euro’s for 2-4 infantry or the smaller war machines such as bolt throwers and cannon and also the minor monstrosities like ogres and trolls. The blister ranges featured the most variety of troop types, but was also the most expensive way to build a regiment. A 5 man cavalry regiment required a budget of 25 euro’s, an infantry regiment of 15-20 men with command cost you between 30 and 45 euro’s!
Especially Skaven players had to be extremely affluent to afford a balanced army, and the best/most usefull dwarf and Dark Elf troops were all metal.
No miracles that most infantry regiments were build with 2 boxes of uniform and rather mundane plastic troops and a command blister, for a total price of 21 euro’s.
Only in the last few years of 5th edition the regiment boxes were added to the plastics range, finally offering some good value for money and more customizing opportunities. I’ve seen these packs diminish in value for 7th edition; the cost of collecting an army has returned to 5th edition standards! And now it is all (“high quality”) plastic!
Imagine you had a monthly allowance of 10 euro’s as a kid… The advantage was that you had plenty of time to paint the 2 cavalry or 4 infantry you bought, the disadvantage was that to play a reasonably sized battle; you had to buy a blister or plastic box every month for 2 years! Or save up money to get something big and powerful that offered more points value for your money.
Birthday money, part-time jobs and holidays featuring gifts were essential for building a reasonably sized force in a smaller time-span. The summer holiday, when I earned some money and got more cash on my birthday, was the time I boosted my army. The reason my army included 16 dwarfs (legal unit for Empire in 5th) was because they were cheap plastic and I got an accidental double set! Yes, by sheer luck, a 8 figure dwarf box actually had 16 models! Sure, I only had 8 slottabases, but for 2-4 euro’s I could get another set of these.
The main reason empire players had kind of sucky armies, was that the only plastics available were the Halberdiers. Other regiments were too costly to field beyond the basic 10-12 men and that required saving for a month or 3. Doubtlessly, there were a lot of empire players who buffed their forces with dwarf warriors.
The price of my empire army:
A Regiment of 6 knights panther: 30 euro’s
A regiment of 5 Kislev Horse archers: 25 euro’s
A Regiment of 23 halberdiers (16 plastic, 3 commands, 4 metals): 31 euro’s
A detachment of 8 swordsmen: 16 euro’s
A regiment of 12 flaggelants: 24-32 euro’s (depending on buying them pre-white metal or post white metal, which reduced the number of troops in blisters)
A regiment of 11 Handgunners: 24 euro’s
A regiment of 11 Halfling archers: 24 euro’s
A regiment of 16 dwarfs: With rather good fortune just 12 euros!
Great Cannon: 10 euro’s
Mortar: 10 euro’s
Hellblaster: 10 euro’s
General on warhorse: 5 euro’s
Ludwig Schwarzhelm: 5 euro’s
Supreme patriarch Thyrus Groman: 5 euro’s
Celestial Wizard: 5 euro’s
Reiksguard champion (hero/general on foot): 5 euro’s
Karl Franz on Death Claw: 30 euro’s
Steam tank: 30 euro’s
A regiment of crossbowmen: 20 euro’s
Total cost: 309 euro’s!
This was plenty of army, and I didn’t buy much new stuff.
Then 6th edition hit the shelves, reducing my legal unit options under 3000 points, so I bought:
2 regiment boxes: 40 euro’s
Elector Count Marius “the mad” Leitdorf of Averland: 5 euro’s (why did I do that? I had plenty of characters anyway!)
The 6th edition boxed set shared with my brother: 25 euro’s
Wow, that’s a collection worth close to 400 euro’s!
Truth be told, some units were birthday/holiday gifts, but still… that’s a euro for every 10 points these troops cost in-game!
I guess that many veterans quit the hobby when the new edition hit the shelves, their massive 3,000 points armies were mutated into “illegal” 2000 points forces, and some units didn’t even make it into the new lists and official army books. It was a sad day for the empire player with a force of Outriders, Halflings, dwarves, Ogres, Kislevites and War Wagons.
No wonder I have an itching desire to get a few games again in the near future! I could have bought an awesome guitar or amplifier (the hobby I switched to during the last years of 5th edition) or a good computer, or a driver’s license (or at least paid a part of it)!
My god, how I half-wasted my hard earned cash! True, I had the best of times with this game… but in hindsight…
Even sold my 3 awesome legoes pirate ships to get more warhammer stuff!
I said previously that Hero Hammer Hosts were created out of economic considerations. I will elaborate on this statement further.
For the greater part of 5th edition’s life span, the cost of miniatures was comparable with the current pricing, mighty expensive! There were 3 variants of packaging for miniatures, the Plastic box-set, the Metal box-set and the blister-pack.
The Plastic Box-set was most cost effective, you either got a unit of 6-10 uniform close combat troops (or wood elf archers) or 4-5 archers and 4-5 spearmen/swordsmen for +/- 8 euro’s (and the first 6 years I played we still payed Guidlers, so that’s the prices x2) without command figures. There was also a box-set containing 2 plastic Bretonnian Knights, a boxed Skeleton Chariot and a set of 3 skeleton horsemen. This made the Undead quite a cost-efficient army in 4th edition and the greater part of the 5th (plastic infantry, plastic cavalry, plastic chariots, the core of any undead army came cheap). Chaos, with plastic Warriors and Plastic Beastmen came second, but all their exotic units were expensive metal. Greenskins also featured a great range of cheap plastics, with Goblins (spears and archers, and there was a special pack with a free fanatic included!), Boyz (warriors and archers) and Black Orcs. Most Bretonnian armies could be built exclusively from the archer and Knights of The Realm Boxed sets and as they featured in the starter set, swapping the lizardmen for more Bretonnians from a friend’s starter set gave you an instant 1000-1500 point’s army for 50 bucks! Yes, that was a force of 24 knights and some 48 archers, but Bretonnians were a rather efficient force, even with just these 2 troop types and a few characters (cost effective money and points wise). An army of triangles! And that’s one of the more solid geometric shapes ;)
Metal Box-sets contained 3-4 heavy cavalry, a character mounted on a big beast or a large war machine/chariot. The prices for these were about 20-50 euro’s depending on the contents. Later some regiments of renown were added to the range of metal box-sets supplying a squad of 6-12 infantry or 5 cavalry.
The blister-packs were about 5 euro’s for a cavalryman or character and 8-10 euro’s for 2-4 infantry or the smaller war machines such as bolt throwers and cannon and also the minor monstrosities like ogres and trolls. The blister ranges featured the most variety of troop types, but was also the most expensive way to build a regiment. A 5 man cavalry regiment required a budget of 25 euro’s, an infantry regiment of 15-20 men with command cost you between 30 and 45 euro’s!
Especially Skaven players had to be extremely affluent to afford a balanced army, and the best/most usefull dwarf and Dark Elf troops were all metal.
No miracles that most infantry regiments were build with 2 boxes of uniform and rather mundane plastic troops and a command blister, for a total price of 21 euro’s.
Only in the last few years of 5th edition the regiment boxes were added to the plastics range, finally offering some good value for money and more customizing opportunities. I’ve seen these packs diminish in value for 7th edition; the cost of collecting an army has returned to 5th edition standards! And now it is all (“high quality”) plastic!
Imagine you had a monthly allowance of 10 euro’s as a kid… The advantage was that you had plenty of time to paint the 2 cavalry or 4 infantry you bought, the disadvantage was that to play a reasonably sized battle; you had to buy a blister or plastic box every month for 2 years! Or save up money to get something big and powerful that offered more points value for your money.
Birthday money, part-time jobs and holidays featuring gifts were essential for building a reasonably sized force in a smaller time-span. The summer holiday, when I earned some money and got more cash on my birthday, was the time I boosted my army. The reason my army included 16 dwarfs (legal unit for Empire in 5th) was because they were cheap plastic and I got an accidental double set! Yes, by sheer luck, a 8 figure dwarf box actually had 16 models! Sure, I only had 8 slottabases, but for 2-4 euro’s I could get another set of these.
The main reason empire players had kind of sucky armies, was that the only plastics available were the Halberdiers. Other regiments were too costly to field beyond the basic 10-12 men and that required saving for a month or 3. Doubtlessly, there were a lot of empire players who buffed their forces with dwarf warriors.
The price of my empire army:
A Regiment of 6 knights panther: 30 euro’s
A regiment of 5 Kislev Horse archers: 25 euro’s
A Regiment of 23 halberdiers (16 plastic, 3 commands, 4 metals): 31 euro’s
A detachment of 8 swordsmen: 16 euro’s
A regiment of 12 flaggelants: 24-32 euro’s (depending on buying them pre-white metal or post white metal, which reduced the number of troops in blisters)
A regiment of 11 Handgunners: 24 euro’s
A regiment of 11 Halfling archers: 24 euro’s
A regiment of 16 dwarfs: With rather good fortune just 12 euros!
Great Cannon: 10 euro’s
Mortar: 10 euro’s
Hellblaster: 10 euro’s
General on warhorse: 5 euro’s
Ludwig Schwarzhelm: 5 euro’s
Supreme patriarch Thyrus Groman: 5 euro’s
Celestial Wizard: 5 euro’s
Reiksguard champion (hero/general on foot): 5 euro’s
Karl Franz on Death Claw: 30 euro’s
Steam tank: 30 euro’s
A regiment of crossbowmen: 20 euro’s
Total cost: 309 euro’s!
This was plenty of army, and I didn’t buy much new stuff.
Then 6th edition hit the shelves, reducing my legal unit options under 3000 points, so I bought:
2 regiment boxes: 40 euro’s
Elector Count Marius “the mad” Leitdorf of Averland: 5 euro’s (why did I do that? I had plenty of characters anyway!)
The 6th edition boxed set shared with my brother: 25 euro’s
Wow, that’s a collection worth close to 400 euro’s!
Truth be told, some units were birthday/holiday gifts, but still… that’s a euro for every 10 points these troops cost in-game!
I guess that many veterans quit the hobby when the new edition hit the shelves, their massive 3,000 points armies were mutated into “illegal” 2000 points forces, and some units didn’t even make it into the new lists and official army books. It was a sad day for the empire player with a force of Outriders, Halflings, dwarves, Ogres, Kislevites and War Wagons.
No wonder I have an itching desire to get a few games again in the near future! I could have bought an awesome guitar or amplifier (the hobby I switched to during the last years of 5th edition) or a good computer, or a driver’s license (or at least paid a part of it)!
My god, how I half-wasted my hard earned cash! True, I had the best of times with this game… but in hindsight…
Even sold my 3 awesome legoes pirate ships to get more warhammer stuff!
Friday, October 16, 2009
Hero Hammer: A way to save money and still play games workshop games
They named it warhammer
It was called Hero Hammer instead
It became Hero Hammer because the liberal rules for building armies. This freedom, as mentioned earlier, offered both inspiration for modeling but also for exploiting the system to “always win, regardless of such lame things like setting background, sportsmanship, friendliness and mutually entertaining afternoons/Friday evenings of miniature wargaming”.
Or that's how some people perceived/experienced the system.
As I said in the Army Book Essay, the fifth edition players had great freedom in selecting their forces for battle. The games designers themselves advised altering the army selection rules if you would think it became a better game by doing so, or for home-brew scenarios.
They did that when they hosted an official tournament:
No special characters
No unridden large monsters
No allies
Wizards are limited to a maximum level of 3, no magic items can improve on this
is that 3 in total or 3 per wizard? I always wondered.
Magic Items with a points value of more than 50 cannot be included
Only one war machine, for each regiment in the army
In fact, Hero Hammer was probably conceived by accident, by starting players who wanted their battles to be as big as possible with the least sensible amount of expensive miniatures (they had spent about 150 euros just on the main box-set, magic system and their army book of choice). So, in a 1500 points battle, you take 2-3 small regiments, some monsters and/or war machines and fill up with big characters to reach the agreed-on points value. It was more an economic solution to have a reasonably sized game with just a few troops. It also meant that players discovered some kick-ass combinations of characters, magic items and elite units to fill out the points in a cost effective way… and stuck with it, even if their collections grew and allowed for more balanced forces. Off course, this meant that no-one left home without a level 4 wizard, the opponent might take one and dominate you in the magic phase (and then you faced elves who took Teclis, being a level 5 dude with cool items). There was a time I always fielded a lord or hero on griffon, just to counter other flying monsters that opponents might take.
I also suspect it’s why the campaign at the games store was with starting forces of 600 points. As 1500 points was the default size for one-of fantasy battles around there and the target size most players had for their armies. Everyone had way too many (special) characters, monsters and war machines to agree on a higher total value for the campaign, as it (like I said earlier) reduced the amount of special awesomeness one could include in an army.
Many fellow hobbyists in the early years bought miniatures for a 1500 point force, and then started a new army or collection. It’s actually quite interesting how a force of 1500 points could still be an example of the Hero Hammer Host, because of the liberal army lists and magic item choices. Some players really made an effort to find some game winning combinations. Such as a Slann mage-priest champion who takes the item that allows him to choose, rather than randomly selects his spells, and uses that to indefinitely cast apotheosis on a skink hero with potion of strength and heart of woe: a deadly combination that can only be described as The Lizardman Skink Suicide Bomber of Extremely Enormous Explosions. It’s one of the prime examples of Hero Hammer Munchkinisms I was on the receiving end of.
The Campaign rules and why they were so nice.
The campaign rules in the battles book greatly limit the player to a regiment-based army. The army must include a general and is limited to one magic item of a maximum point value (50), one war machine, one wizard, one large monster and no allies. Each player then randomly selected a number of territories under his control by rolling a d66 (one d6 for tens, one for units, consult a chart). The awesome special troops and items could be gained with the control of certain territories but army selection still had the regular limitations. Setting the army points value at 600 meant further restricting the possibilities of the most powerful stuff.
A campaign as described in the battle book is a lot of fun, and adds a sense of justification for the inclusion of powerful elements, the player has probably fought hard to obtain or defend the territories where he found them, and it gave you an incentive to try your best to wrest the best ones from your enemy’s hands, driving him into useless wastelands of little utility. If only I had thought about driving the Bretonnians into forest territories, they did not have access to war machines at the time, and that’s what forests gave you.
In addition, it had a simple system for creating veteran units and characters over the course of a campaign, which were omitted from the 6th edition (though it had a similar campaign system), and without doubt, 7th has all but forgotten them. It required the veteran regiments to be appropriately named, very inspirational... and a passionate modeller could have done cool things with that.
Also, these rules could be used for one-off battles. Just agree on a point value and the number of territories each player controls. Roll for the territories and build your army with what you get from the rolls. The territories you rolled are also used as the terrain in the battle.
This set-up brings more thought to selecting your forces. Do you make full use of the resources at hand? Or do you make a balanced list using just some of the options available to you?*
I never used them that way, but it sure would have been interesting.
Even so, it was occasionally a lot of fun to have no-holds barred 3000 points matches and fight epic duels between monster riding heroes…
*Territories that supplied wizards were of limited use to dwarf players, only for magic items and maybe a runepriest (not quite a wizard). In contrast, the Bretonnians and Wood Elves (!) had no use for Forests at all, but these were the dream location for Dwarfs and Empire.
hmm... the uselesness of a forest to a wood elf player is actually quite annoying now I think about it.... still, I stand for my claim, 5th edition needs to be played as campaign!
Better in 5th: The Books!
Yes, another supplemental purchase required to play, the Warhammer Armies Books.
These volumes used to include an 'eavy metal section, now replaced with the soulless collecting/painting/modeling guide. Many also had a scenario or battle report. It had the complete history of the faction, featured all troops and characters and also featured a few short stories with the faction's heroes as characters.
These 4th/5th edition books offered a more liberal army selection, based on percentages, max 50% characters, at least 25% regiments, up to 25% each of war machines, monsters and allies (units from other races).
Especially the Ally rules could be used to teach powergamers a lesson, if you were constantly crushed by the High Elf's magical superiority, just include a High Mage of your own and give him a taste of his own medicine.
but then, it was also easily exploited to cover a weakness in your race. No cavalry and Magic for Dwarves? just take some empire troops along. want more than 25% war machines? borrow another bunch from another race!
...Nasty...
In the hands of mature, narrative-minded players, these old army books offered endless inspiration for themed forces, forces with a story, forces that offered a challenge to both owner and opponent. It's probably still possible in the new edition... but imagine this: A Kislevite army led by the Ice Queen with a core of cavalry units supported by awesome conversions of Empire infantry to give them the kislevite look and feel... Or the Army of Sylvania, led by a Vampire Count, fielding zombies, ghouls, some skelletons, gohsts and Bat Swarms. only the Dire Wolves were not available untill the split... but you could use allied Hounds of Chaos to represent these if you really wanted wolves. In fact, even the 5th edition vampire counts book was better, because taking a Vampire was Mandatory. How unlike the current rules, were you're allowed to just take a bunch of necromancers instead.
I almost bought several army books I didn't have models for, because it featured good stories, battle reports or an exiting scenario.
In 6th edition, the armies were more balanced, but they weren't as customizable as they used to be. In addition, the background material was very much toned down and flanderized. yes, the figures are currently more customizable... factions are not.
I cheer for balance, I cry for the lack of inspiring tales and the loss of freedom.
yes, the freedom was abused by uninmaginative players... but it actually used to offer more inspiration to passionate modellers with exeptional ideas for armies. Warhammer got vanilla-ized.
These volumes used to include an 'eavy metal section, now replaced with the soulless collecting/painting/modeling guide. Many also had a scenario or battle report. It had the complete history of the faction, featured all troops and characters and also featured a few short stories with the faction's heroes as characters.
These 4th/5th edition books offered a more liberal army selection, based on percentages, max 50% characters, at least 25% regiments, up to 25% each of war machines, monsters and allies (units from other races).
Especially the Ally rules could be used to teach powergamers a lesson, if you were constantly crushed by the High Elf's magical superiority, just include a High Mage of your own and give him a taste of his own medicine.
but then, it was also easily exploited to cover a weakness in your race. No cavalry and Magic for Dwarves? just take some empire troops along. want more than 25% war machines? borrow another bunch from another race!
...Nasty...
In the hands of mature, narrative-minded players, these old army books offered endless inspiration for themed forces, forces with a story, forces that offered a challenge to both owner and opponent. It's probably still possible in the new edition... but imagine this: A Kislevite army led by the Ice Queen with a core of cavalry units supported by awesome conversions of Empire infantry to give them the kislevite look and feel... Or the Army of Sylvania, led by a Vampire Count, fielding zombies, ghouls, some skelletons, gohsts and Bat Swarms. only the Dire Wolves were not available untill the split... but you could use allied Hounds of Chaos to represent these if you really wanted wolves. In fact, even the 5th edition vampire counts book was better, because taking a Vampire was Mandatory. How unlike the current rules, were you're allowed to just take a bunch of necromancers instead.
I almost bought several army books I didn't have models for, because it featured good stories, battle reports or an exiting scenario.
In 6th edition, the armies were more balanced, but they weren't as customizable as they used to be. In addition, the background material was very much toned down and flanderized. yes, the figures are currently more customizable... factions are not.
I cheer for balance, I cry for the lack of inspiring tales and the loss of freedom.
yes, the freedom was abused by uninmaginative players... but it actually used to offer more inspiration to passionate modellers with exeptional ideas for armies. Warhammer got vanilla-ized.
Warhammer Magic, the Card Game
5th edition Magic was as monstrous a beast as a Chaos Lord on an Imperial Dragon with three magic items each worth 150 points.
It was a big box, filled to the brim with magic item cards, cards for spells, cards for The Winds of Magic, templates, counters and a thin paperback book with the complete rules for magic and magical items. The smart marketeers of GW put this set together in such a way that it actually required each player to have his own set, for the occassion that players used the same lore of magic, or wanted the same magic items (no one would take the field without at least one dispel scroll). Most lores had 10 spell cards, except Skaven magic, which had 13.
The Magic phase was the end of any turn (except for dwarf players), it featured drawing a random number of winds of magic cards dealt to each player equally (odd cards to the casting side) reading "Power", "Dispel", "Destroy spell", "Escape" and "Total Power". Each spell, randomly drawn at the start of the battle had a required number of power cards, and Total Power caused a single spell to be cast without the possibility of having it dispelled. there were dispel scrolls (max 2 per army) and a destroy scroll (max. 1) who could auto-block spells and possibly destroy them, except for spells cast with total power.
I'm actually not sure about the auto-block... it could have been a way to try to dispel if you didn't get the right winds of magic cards to do it.
When spells were cast, the casting player could spend a number of power cards on the spell, and the opposing player could try to dispel the spell if he had a dispel or destroy spell card. This required a d6 roll of 4 or better, modified by wizard level and the number of power cards played to boost either the spell or dispel. It was a bit of a betting game, and humiliating defeat or the slim chance for victory could hinge on a single dispel-roll depending on the type of magic used.
The "Assault of Stone" spell for example could move a hill to crush all units it could reach... if you had big hills in your deployment zone, or wanted to use their advantages, you'd better have some scrolls on hand or pray for that destroy spell card...
The escape card was a nice feature, it allowed you to return a slain character (it escapes me if it had to be the wizard, I don't have the book at hand) to the table-top... kind of nasty if you just killed the enemy's best character with extreme effort and massive loss of troops. "Yay! I killed Teclis the Loremaster! Finally I stand a chance to win this game!"... "Ah, see, I saved this card here for just such an occassion, 'escape', tee-hee, Teclis Lives!" (rather unfair, as the elves also had Apotheosis which practically had the same effect)
also nice for magic-light armies was the Drain Magic spell. I recall it was a dispel that, when successful, ended the magic phase.
Gw actually tried to make it a balanced system.
seems I'm still not so possitive, does it?
But then, I actually enjoyed this system, it had a bit more depth than the new dice-based system. It was the choices you had to make, "do I dispel that nasty Curse of Years still in play or will I use my power cards for that Teleport spell to set up a flank attack? I'm one level lower than the other guy, I really need power to boost the spell to -3 dispel"
truly a game within the game.
I think that we also did some Wizard Duels as part of our private 4-player tournaments. The supplement made such mini-games quite exiting, more strategic than a wizard duel in the current rules.
It was a big box, filled to the brim with magic item cards, cards for spells, cards for The Winds of Magic, templates, counters and a thin paperback book with the complete rules for magic and magical items. The smart marketeers of GW put this set together in such a way that it actually required each player to have his own set, for the occassion that players used the same lore of magic, or wanted the same magic items (no one would take the field without at least one dispel scroll). Most lores had 10 spell cards, except Skaven magic, which had 13.
The Magic phase was the end of any turn (except for dwarf players), it featured drawing a random number of winds of magic cards dealt to each player equally (odd cards to the casting side) reading "Power", "Dispel", "Destroy spell", "Escape" and "Total Power". Each spell, randomly drawn at the start of the battle had a required number of power cards, and Total Power caused a single spell to be cast without the possibility of having it dispelled. there were dispel scrolls (max 2 per army) and a destroy scroll (max. 1) who could auto-block spells and possibly destroy them, except for spells cast with total power.
I'm actually not sure about the auto-block... it could have been a way to try to dispel if you didn't get the right winds of magic cards to do it.
When spells were cast, the casting player could spend a number of power cards on the spell, and the opposing player could try to dispel the spell if he had a dispel or destroy spell card. This required a d6 roll of 4 or better, modified by wizard level and the number of power cards played to boost either the spell or dispel. It was a bit of a betting game, and humiliating defeat or the slim chance for victory could hinge on a single dispel-roll depending on the type of magic used.
The "Assault of Stone" spell for example could move a hill to crush all units it could reach... if you had big hills in your deployment zone, or wanted to use their advantages, you'd better have some scrolls on hand or pray for that destroy spell card...
The escape card was a nice feature, it allowed you to return a slain character (it escapes me if it had to be the wizard, I don't have the book at hand) to the table-top... kind of nasty if you just killed the enemy's best character with extreme effort and massive loss of troops. "Yay! I killed Teclis the Loremaster! Finally I stand a chance to win this game!"... "Ah, see, I saved this card here for just such an occassion, 'escape', tee-hee, Teclis Lives!" (rather unfair, as the elves also had Apotheosis which practically had the same effect)
also nice for magic-light armies was the Drain Magic spell. I recall it was a dispel that, when successful, ended the magic phase.
Gw actually tried to make it a balanced system.
seems I'm still not so possitive, does it?
But then, I actually enjoyed this system, it had a bit more depth than the new dice-based system. It was the choices you had to make, "do I dispel that nasty Curse of Years still in play or will I use my power cards for that Teleport spell to set up a flank attack? I'm one level lower than the other guy, I really need power to boost the spell to -3 dispel"
truly a game within the game.
I think that we also did some Wizard Duels as part of our private 4-player tournaments. The supplement made such mini-games quite exiting, more strategic than a wizard duel in the current rules.
The Chaos Farts on your Face phase
I mentioned the Chaos Farts in your Face phase several times in my first blog. Why? And what does it mean?
Truth be told, it was not a persistent threat to have chaos fart in your face, only if you played against a chaos player. It is however one thing of this edition I genuinenly loathed.
This is what the Chaos Farts on your Face phase was all about.
The normal turn sequence of fifth edition was:
1. Movement
2. Shooting
3. Close Combat
4. Magic
However, a Chaos player got this turn sequence:
1. Winds of Chaos
2. Movement
3. Shooting
4. Close Combat
5. Magic
In the winds of chaos phase, a chaos player got his own special deck of magic cards to buff his allready awesomely strong units and characters or kill some enemy troops with the small/negligable risk of having one of his characters turn into a chaos spawn or whisked away into the realm of chaos by his god to do some menial task for him (Champions of Chaos are also the Janitors of Chaos).
As only the Chaos player received these "winds of chaos" cards, a non-chaos player had no way to defend himself from this situation. Hence, the Chaos farts on your face phase. You just had to suck it up that his already powerfull units were now twice as powerfull, or your best unit was diminished to half-strength with melted armour or weapons turned to goo.
I think it could even destroy magic items... yes, Chaos is the source of magic. No, it's not fair that a chaos player gets 2 magic phases in his own turn, one against which is no possible defence.
so awesomely fixed in 6th edition. Jay!
Consequently, I had the greatest fun with 5th edition against anything but chaos (and lizardmen because of it's playerbase). I could accept being humiliated in every magic phase, at least I had a chance to do something against powerfull spells. by good fortune, I only faced the resident chaos player twice. He was almost a nice guy this fellow, when you needed advice on the game, you'd ask him. He was the guy who organised the events and did it very well. Playing against his chaos in 5th edition however, was... well... not so nice.
Thursday, October 15, 2009
Chaos Farts on your Face! it's 5th edition WHFB!
I write this, because the new Blood Bowl pc-game had me browsing my old white dwarf issues for that one Tactics article I remembered it had. I didn't find the article. What did happen is that I began to remenisce about my time as a warhammer player in the old editions. I browsed the net to see if there are still some websites about it, and there aren't... or maybe there are in the abysses of angelfire... My final motivation for this blog came from the few glimpses I got of 7th edition warhammer as I browsed page and boards. Apparently the High Elves gained always strike first as a faction-wide special rule and when close combat is discussed, the huge amount of dice for certain units astound me. How does a 20 man unit of waraxe wielding dwarves get 13 attacks if they're ranked up 4x5? shouldn't they have spears for that? they probably changed the charge rules... are they trying to make it warhammer 40k Fantasy?
I thought they fixed warhammer with 6th edition
Now they're breaking it again with 7th... I wouldn't be surprised if they bring back the Chaos Farts on your Face phase too...
I'd like to play the game again some time in the near future. But I'd rather play the version that got me started, that had me obsessed and of which I have the fondest memories: 5th edition. but then... who would still play that if it's 8 years out of date... damn. It's been just 8 years?
no I would prefer 5th... even if it has the Chaos farts on your face phase.
5th edition is generally refered to as Hero Hammer, and while winning the origins award at the time it was released, many gamers criticized it for the powerful magic and characters on/with monsters.
I say that it depends on your game experience if Hero Hammer is the proper term.
If you used special characters, or did not use the "Set Limits" option of the battles book, or played a tournament, you'd have a game in which, indeed, the characters were the most powerful. Still vulnerable on their own, but hard hitters none the less. With monsters, especially flying monsters it could be terrifying. It's nice 6th edition fixed it a little (it is now possible to spend more than half your points on characters, in 5th the limit was 50%, 75% for Bretonnians), but a Hero Hammer force is still possible. What about the Vampire Counts army with not a single vampire among it's ranks, all character slots filled with necromancers for magic superiority?
And what about the fact that many older players decide to do 1,999 points battles to exclude the option of taking a Lord level character? I thought they fixed the power of the character!?
The only things 6th edition properly fixed was flying, magic, the Empire and removing the Chaos farts on your Face phase.
I had some fun with 6th, and I must admit, the reason I stopped playing was mostly girlfriends, guitar music and college... and the lack of like-minded players in the new generation of 14 year olds... who all seemed just a bit more naive and lazy (didn't know the rules at a tournament) than I was when I started.
Then it hit me...
5th edition wasn't broken
the players were...
... to a certain extent.
Some players just couldn't see past the stats and items into the rich background like any critic of the game did, any critic I agreed with... I was criticized by fellow players for using Halberdiers (useless unit). I took them because the background told me they were the empire's Mainstay, criticized for not always taking a Wizard Lord of 200+ points, because i'd rather have more regiments. Always gave the Knights Panter a dispel banner (arcane protection?) because that is how their banner was described in the 'eavy metal section (had I bought White Wolves, they'd have had the Dread Banner, cause that's how it's described). off course, there were many, many players who were like me, I just didn't know them... and to be frank, the new editions are actually quite an insult to a players own imagination. Chaos didn't need to be split up, players could decide for themselves, undead didn't need to be split up, players could choose the theme to be Vampire or Mummy or anything else (ghoul?). They made it dumber, so dumb players can't abuse the rules anymore... but the smarter cheesecakes, beards and munchkins could still find their way... just fill your character slots with wizards on dark pegasi.
however, there was one sure and fun way to curtail the dominance of monsters, mages and characters was to play with the Campaign Rules in the battles book. you were allowed one character, one magic item and one war machine. For all additional awesomeness you needed the applicable territory.
especially the 600 points/1000 points campaigns we did were a blast. It was in fact, Warhammer fantasy battles as it was meant to be, and anyone who still has 5th edition rules but backed out of officially playing it... try these rules as campaign game for a month or two with armies not greater than 1500 points (600 is actually the coolest size*). You'll be pleasantly surprised.
You could even use it for one-off battles as force restriction and terrain generator!
Thus, to break a lance for the Ole' fiver, I'd be posting here my memories and any new idea's that come up. I'll be there for the Longbeards who just couldn't be bothered with the new stuff, backed out because of cost or bad experiences with things like Assault of Stone or the infamous Chaos Farts on your Face phase and any new beardling who likes to know what it was like before Storm of Chaos... heck, even before Dark Shadows, the only on-line campaign I could actively take part in by virtue of steady opponents at the time.
... and I do love the living history GW made... If i can ever get a group for a 5th ed. campaign (almere region the Netherlands), it will actually be about the whole world. Every campaign event of the past years will be represented... reshape Warhammer History like YOU would like it!
* I even think it's actually the avarage points value of the 5th edition diorama/battle scene photographs in the books.
I thought they fixed warhammer with 6th edition
Now they're breaking it again with 7th... I wouldn't be surprised if they bring back the Chaos Farts on your Face phase too...
I'd like to play the game again some time in the near future. But I'd rather play the version that got me started, that had me obsessed and of which I have the fondest memories: 5th edition. but then... who would still play that if it's 8 years out of date... damn. It's been just 8 years?
no I would prefer 5th... even if it has the Chaos farts on your face phase.
5th edition is generally refered to as Hero Hammer, and while winning the origins award at the time it was released, many gamers criticized it for the powerful magic and characters on/with monsters.
I say that it depends on your game experience if Hero Hammer is the proper term.
If you used special characters, or did not use the "Set Limits" option of the battles book, or played a tournament, you'd have a game in which, indeed, the characters were the most powerful. Still vulnerable on their own, but hard hitters none the less. With monsters, especially flying monsters it could be terrifying. It's nice 6th edition fixed it a little (it is now possible to spend more than half your points on characters, in 5th the limit was 50%, 75% for Bretonnians), but a Hero Hammer force is still possible. What about the Vampire Counts army with not a single vampire among it's ranks, all character slots filled with necromancers for magic superiority?
And what about the fact that many older players decide to do 1,999 points battles to exclude the option of taking a Lord level character? I thought they fixed the power of the character!?
The only things 6th edition properly fixed was flying, magic, the Empire and removing the Chaos farts on your Face phase.
I had some fun with 6th, and I must admit, the reason I stopped playing was mostly girlfriends, guitar music and college... and the lack of like-minded players in the new generation of 14 year olds... who all seemed just a bit more naive and lazy (didn't know the rules at a tournament) than I was when I started.
Then it hit me...
5th edition wasn't broken
the players were...
... to a certain extent.
Some players just couldn't see past the stats and items into the rich background like any critic of the game did, any critic I agreed with... I was criticized by fellow players for using Halberdiers (useless unit). I took them because the background told me they were the empire's Mainstay, criticized for not always taking a Wizard Lord of 200+ points, because i'd rather have more regiments. Always gave the Knights Panter a dispel banner (arcane protection?) because that is how their banner was described in the 'eavy metal section (had I bought White Wolves, they'd have had the Dread Banner, cause that's how it's described). off course, there were many, many players who were like me, I just didn't know them... and to be frank, the new editions are actually quite an insult to a players own imagination. Chaos didn't need to be split up, players could decide for themselves, undead didn't need to be split up, players could choose the theme to be Vampire or Mummy or anything else (ghoul?). They made it dumber, so dumb players can't abuse the rules anymore... but the smarter cheesecakes, beards and munchkins could still find their way... just fill your character slots with wizards on dark pegasi.
however, there was one sure and fun way to curtail the dominance of monsters, mages and characters was to play with the Campaign Rules in the battles book. you were allowed one character, one magic item and one war machine. For all additional awesomeness you needed the applicable territory.
especially the 600 points/1000 points campaigns we did were a blast. It was in fact, Warhammer fantasy battles as it was meant to be, and anyone who still has 5th edition rules but backed out of officially playing it... try these rules as campaign game for a month or two with armies not greater than 1500 points (600 is actually the coolest size*). You'll be pleasantly surprised.
You could even use it for one-off battles as force restriction and terrain generator!
Thus, to break a lance for the Ole' fiver, I'd be posting here my memories and any new idea's that come up. I'll be there for the Longbeards who just couldn't be bothered with the new stuff, backed out because of cost or bad experiences with things like Assault of Stone or the infamous Chaos Farts on your Face phase and any new beardling who likes to know what it was like before Storm of Chaos... heck, even before Dark Shadows, the only on-line campaign I could actively take part in by virtue of steady opponents at the time.
... and I do love the living history GW made... If i can ever get a group for a 5th ed. campaign (almere region the Netherlands), it will actually be about the whole world. Every campaign event of the past years will be represented... reshape Warhammer History like YOU would like it!
* I even think it's actually the avarage points value of the 5th edition diorama/battle scene photographs in the books.
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